8c+ to V Scale: How It Converts to a V16 or 5.15b

If you’re wondering how an 8C+ boulder problem converts to the V scale or sport climbing grades, here’s your quick answer:

8C+ equals V16 on the Hueco V scale. It also compares to around 5.15b on the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS), though that’s a sport climbing grade, not a bouldering one.

In this guide, you’ll see how bouldering and sport climbing grades relate, why these conversions aren’t exact, and what makes each grading system different.

Key Takeaways

• Differences between Font and V scales The Font and V scales offer two different approaches to grading boulder problems. In the United States climbing community, the V scale is prevalent.
• There are some issues when attempting to convert an 8c+ Font grade to the V scale. This is largely a result of differences in grading philosophy and the lack of a clear, consistent approach.
• V scale equivalents that establish performance standards for elite climbers on US soil. Such high accolades fire up enthusiasm and create opportunities to attract lucrative sponsorships.
• Each climber will have different things to consider when moving from one grading system to the other, so it’s key to know your strengths and climbing style.
• Planned finger-specific training, progression for stamina, endurance and discipline, and goal achievement are key aspects to overcoming the grades of elite climbing.
• It takes a community Celebrating personal progress and community support can help climbers stay motivated, even if there’s no big number attached to their success.

Comparing 8c+ Font and V Scale

The Font (French) and V scale are both used to rate problems in bouldering. They come from very different traditions and look at the difficulty of climbing in very different lights. The 8c+ Font grade is among the highest ever given, equivalent to V16 on the V scale.

These grades offer an intimidating uphill walk. You don’t just need to be strong, you need to be skillfully sharp, technically sound and mentally dialed in to prevail. Here’s a quick side-by-side look:

Font Grade	V Scale	YDS Equivalent
8c+	V16	5.15b

An 8c+ boulder problem is generally going to involve bad holds, bad feet, dynamic moves, very powerful, delicate, complex moves. Climbers operating at this level have trained for decades, developing finger strength, total body explosive power, and technical proficiency with movement.

Reaching a performance grade like V16 takes a huge amount of work. Climbs like “Sleepwalker” in Red Rocks require marathon days, meticulous preparation, and intimate knowledge of your climbing to send.

For a climber, this can be a daunting task when converting from the Font scale to V scale. Each system uses very different ideas to assign grades.

Comparing the Font System

The Font system, which is prevalent across Europe, blends both physical and technical requirements. The V scale, primarily used in North America, increases as each new hardest boulder problem is discovered.

Some climbs might feel like V15 to one climber and 8c+ to another, based on background and what kind of moves suit them. Climbers who spend significant time on both scales tend to agree upon the grades more closely.

Different types of rock, climbing styles, and climates can make a given grade feel easier or harder. Almost all climbers seem to be in agreement that 8c+ and V16 are the highest grades in contemporary bouldering.

What Are Font and V Scales?

Font and V scales are the two primary systems climbers use to grade bouldering problems. The Font scale, known as Fontainebleau, comes from France. Local climbers with constant access to the mammoth sandstone boulders, grading became imperative for their cragging and bouldering experiences.

This system employs a positive-only numerical scale, beginning with a 1, such that harder climbs have higher numbers. By grade 6, students are exclusively using uppercase letters for “A,” “B,” and “C.” Sometimes they even throw in a “+” for more precision.

Therefore, you’ll find climbing ratings such as 6A, 6B+, or 8C. The Font scale is open-ended, so as new, more difficult climbs are established, new numbers are added. This scale is currently in use by most European bouldering areas, chiefly in France.

The V scale, which was developed in the United States, is exclusively for bouldering. It is strongly related to the Yosemite Decimal System. It begins at V0, the easiest, and goes up in one-number increments—V1, V2, etc.

Currently, the highest bouldering ascents in the world have ratings of V16 or sometimes even V17. The “V” is from John “Vermin” Sherman, who first developed the V scale in Hueco Tanks, Texas. Unlike the Font scale, the V scale doesn’t involve letters or “+” signs. It’s less of a cumulative total going up.

While both scales try to provide climbers with an idea of what they might encounter, the philosophies of the two scales are different. Font grades focus more on the technical maneuvers and the difficulty of the sequences.

By comparison, the V scale is concerned only with pure physical challenge. Both have evolved over time, as the grade of what was considered hard climbing continues to climb ever higher. Each grading method helps climbers size up routes, talk about the challenge, and compare lines, even if they climb in different parts of the world.

The Significance of High Grades

Aside from competition, high grades in bouldering — like 8c+ on the Font scale or V15 on the V scale — are important markers. In climbing, they set the standard for what is deemed hard. They reveal the position of the ceiling at that highest level.

For climbers, these grades aren’t some arbitrary statistic—they’re tangible evidence of skill and progress. Climbing a particular route with a high grade often feels like punching above your weight. It signifies that the climber has developed a high level of strength, mastered intricate sequences of movement, and overcome previous barriers.

Gyms and outdoor spaces in Los Angeles have become intertwined. Individuals adopt these grades as proxies for their own progress and share them for light-hearted competition and comparison.

For the rest of the climbing community, high grades provide aspirational targets. They provide everyone an opportunity to communicate objectives and discuss ascents. Others see them as a cudgel to punish those who fall short.

For some it’s about the competition, inspiring themselves to be able to complete or beat the hardest climbs. What is considered “high” changes since each area—whether the US, Europe, etc.—can adopt a different scale. Climbers will do anything to find an advantage in their quest for harder grades.

This mission inspires new pedagogical breakthroughs and pushes the development of innovative training technology. For professional climbers, achieving high grades can represent more than an ego boost.

Prospective sponsors want to see the large figures, not only because they illustrate the talent of the individual, but the motivation. This can lead to opportunities to speak at conferences, equipment sponsorships, and media appearances.

Psychologically, striving for high grades develops grit and concentration. Learning complicated dance steps takes a ton of practice and patience. Now, climbing at a new high grade has an enormous impact on a climber’s ego and confidence.

Challenges in Grade Conversion

Difficulty Climbers everywhere have trouble converting between the Font (Fontainebleau) scale and the V scale. This grade conversion can be a real doozy! A related misconception is that there exists a precise, static, one-to-one correspondence between these scales.

In practice, there’s no one-size-fits-all chart or formula that will ever ensure a 100 percent accurate conversion. While the Font and V scales were initially created for specific styles and regions, each of these scales takes into consideration the specific impact of a local climbing culture and the natural rock on the region’s climbing experience.

Personal experience goes a long way too. For others, a V10 boulder in California could seem less daunting than an 8c+ proposition in France. A route setter’s grading of a climb will usually be an expression of their own strength and body type.

It features their favorite flavor, be it power pumping or stiff arêteing. As every climber quickly learns, the difficulty is different for everyone. What’s difficult for one climber may be a relative romp for another, even at the same grade.

Perhaps the most important hurdle is that there are no standard rules governing conversions. Unlike the UIAA scale—which, despite being outdated, at least attempted to impose some order—today’s systems allow local tradition and tastes to reign supreme.

This has the effect that, from gym to gym, crag to crag, or even country to country, the same climb can receive a different grade. A boulder V11 US grade would be 8a+ European grade equivalent. That kind of comparison can start to go off the rails when the styles or topography start to change.

Perception plays a huge role. Here’s where understanding your own climbing style and the local grading culture goes a long way. After all, it’s not just a numbers game—every climber is different, and the goal is to find the right fit for each one.

Training for Elite Climbing Levels

Training for elite climbing, like breaking into 8c+ or high V grades, takes a mix of skill, body strength, and know-how about the grading systems. Climbing grades are straightforward at the beginner level—V0-V2, 4-5+ but at the other end, it’s not so easy. The V Scale, made by John Sherman, is now the main system in North America, South America, Southeast Asia, and Oceania.

In Europe and other areas of Asia, climbers use the Font Scale. These grades provide climbers with a benchmark to set goals, but the system is far from flawless. A V7 might provide you the same feelings as a V6. What’s challenging for one climber can seem like second nature for another.

To climb at elite levels, finger strength and endurance are the most important. Hangboard work, campusing and lots of routine bouldering on overhung walls will develop these qualities. Endurance is developed through longer efforts on circuits or lead routes, and power from short, intense boulder problems.

Having structured training plans, an emphasis on goal-setting, and the peer accountability aspect really moved the needle. Whether it be systematic monitoring of progress, strategic implementation of rest days, or consistent testing across known grades, they all help to keep training on course.

Climbers take in the most training information from popularized gyms or coaches. Some top resources and spots are:

• Momentum Climbing Gym (Utah, US)
• Vertical Hold (California, US)
• Bloc Shop (Quebec, Canada)
• Urban Climb (Brisbane, Australia)
• Climbing guides by Eric Hörst and Dave MacLeod

As climbers advance from one grade to the next, improvement is seldom linear. Being familiar with the Yosemite Decimal System or French Scale is a plus, as outdoor routes will often use these systems.

US Climbing Scene: High-End Grades

High-end grades in US climbing scene highlight amazing talent and determination. Climbers are always trying to go harder and higher. The Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) sets the standard for trad and sport climbs. Routes rated higher than 5.14 are widely accepted as some of the most difficult in the international climbing scene.

Climbers at these grades have devoted years to training, tuning their strength, technique and mental game. Notable climbs like “Fish” (5.14d) in Yosemite Valley and “La Dura Complete” (5.15a) in Zion show how far the scene has come. These ascents do an important service in raising the bar and influencing climbers’ perceptions of top-end grades.

Whether it’s Chris Sharma or Ashima Shiraishi, only the big names can afford to pay their dues in high climbs. They’re raising the overall profile of hard climbing in the US! Their climbs have started fires of controversy and greatness, challenging others to do better.

Still, by virtue of what grading is, there will always be some level of subjectivity involved. What’s hard for one climber on a 5.15a could be something else entirely for another climber. Tables of comparison and grade conversion charts are useful for providing a middle ground between grading systems like the YDS and the French scale.

Geography is a factor, too. Yosemite, the Red River Gorge, and Smith Rock all call climbers in search of hard lines. Each region has its own flair and grading eccentricities.

Climbing competitions—at the local gym level to national competitions—play a role in creating grade standards as well. They are tangible standards that climbers can use to measure their progress. This method gives them the ability to hone in on specific issues and problems, providing uniformity and continuity in grading.

Beyond the Numbers: Focus on Progress

Ratings such as 8c+ or the V-scale indicate your comparative success in the sport of climbing. We need to remember, these numbers are just one piece of the story. Most climbers would agree that growth and mastery are what define the true journey—not solely climbing one grade after another.

In the last 10 years, elite boulders have always been capped at 8C. Some well-known issues, such as Dreamtime and The Never-ending Story, have gone as far as receiving downgrades. This goes to illustrate how much things can shift. They don’t always tell the true story of your progress.

In the US, the V-scale’s large leaps from grade to grade can obscure even modest progress. For many climbers, a V6 is a mental and physical barrier that is hard to surmount compared to a V7 in other regions. It’s okay if your progress isn’t reflecting the grade.

Realism is key. Setting the right goals to correspond with your skill levels, such as landing a difficult maneuver or learning a new grip, helps to stay grounded. Recognize and celebrate small victories, like reaching the top of a challenge that seemed insurmountable.

These moments are about so much more than a new letter grade. It’s important to note that community has a huge impact as well. Share tales and advice from local climbers. Take a session on the road to your favorite athletic facility to energize your thinking and improve your mood!

Practical ways to track progress and stay stoked include:

• Create an informal record of ascents and transitions that were challenging to navigate.
• Take short videos to watch for better form.
• Try new styles or locations, not just harder grades.
• Ask for feedback from friends or mentors.
• Share beta and celebrate with others.

Frequently Asked Questions

What does 8c+ mean in bouldering grades?

8c+ is a very high European sport climbing grade, one of the highest on the Font (Fontainebleau) scale widely used in Europe. It signifies an incredibly difficult boulder problem, sometimes only attempted by the very best climbers on the planet.

What is the V scale equivalent of 8c+?

8c+ on the Font scale is equivalent to roughly V16 on the V scale. Both of them are examples of the world’s most difficult bouldering problems.

Why are there different grading systems for bouldering?

This is part of an ongoing trend of different areas establishing their own scales. The Font scale is used primarily in Europe, the V scale has become the standard in the United States.

How accurate is converting 8c+ to V16?

Note Conversions are only rough estimates. Holds, styles, and conditions vary from region to region. There is widespread agreement among experts that 8c+ is in the range of V16, yet individual climbs might feel “harder” or “easier” based on where they are located.

How many people have climbed V16 or 8c+ boulders in the US?

Very few. Just like the handful of American climbers that have topped out on V16 or 8c+ problems. This has made these sorts of achievements very rare on the US climbing scene.

How should climbers approach training for these top grades?

Train for maximum strength, technical skill acquisition, injury prevention, and mental preparation. Work with well-qualified coaches and follow established training plans. The real secret is consistency.

Is grade chasing the most important part of climbing?

No. We need to prioritize progress, personal goals, and the joy of the process over pure grade progression. We all know climbing is much more than numbers—it’s about personal growth and community.