The 8C grade is part of the Fontainebleau (Font) bouldering scale, mostly used in Europe. If you’re used to the V Scale, common in the U.S., you might wonder how 8C compares.
In short: 8C roughly equals V15 on the Hueco V Scale, or 5.15a on the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) if you’re trying to compare it to roped climbs.
Keep reading to learn how these grading systems compare, why 8C is such a high grade, and what it takes to climb at this level.
Key Takeaways
- Bouldering grades, like 8C and the V scale, help climbers gauge problem difficulty and select climbs that match their abilities.
- In the United States, climbers exclusively use the V scale. At the same time, 8c is equivalent to the European Fontainebleau (Font) system. Therefore, international climbers need to convert grades to realize the distinction.
- Mapping 8C onto the V scale would put it at around V15. Such a degree of difficulty would take its place among the hardest bouldering problems in all of America.
- Knowing how grades convert helps you avoid confusion and miscommunication. This information makes you safer when you approach new routes, particularly when traveling or climbing with people from other communities.
- Bouldering grades are perhaps the most dynamic. Changes like these are driven by improvements in climbing techniques, new technology, competition, and the impact of iconic athletes.
- Rather, use grades as helpful guides. Pay attention to your own journey, encourage adaptation, and have fun being a member of the climbing community rather than simply pursuing bigger digits.
The Core Conversion: 8c to V Scale
Even something like bouldering grades can be intimidating. This is especially so when you’re making the conversion from Europe’s 8c system to the V scale employed here in the US. The important bit is that climbers tend to feel that 8c is about the same grade as V15.
At the same time, they equate 8c+ with V16. Some of these charts even get more ambitious, placing V17 at 9a. These figures are only a starting point. Real-life climbs are rarely that clean cut.
Here’s a quick look at the conversion:
| Fontainebleau (8c) | V Scale (US) |
|---|---|
| 8b+ | V14 |
| 8c | V15 |
| 8c+ | V16 |
| 9a | V17 |
It’s good to be armed with this information when you travel, when you read topos, or when you exchange tales with climbers from other countries. Yet the process is often far from easy. Even for top climbers, 8c continues to be a bit of a moving target.
Over the years, hard problems like Dreamtime, New Base Line, and The Never-ending Story have been downgraded from 8c to 8b+. Few doubt that grade inflation is an issue when the highest grade remains frozen at 8c for decades.
Maybe that’s why different regions hold tenaciously to their own grading culture. In the US, the V scale is used as a reference by gyms and independent guidebooks, while most of Europe remains dominated by the Fontainebleau system.
This can create real challenges for climbers to measure their progress, or ensure an identical climb can be compared across international borders. The core definition of 8c has not changed significantly in over a decade. People have been wondering for years whether it is still a valid metric.
In the U.S., rope climbing adopted the Yosemite Decimal System, but Europe has continued to use the French scale for both bouldering and rope climbing. Grades provide climbers a tangible metric for communicating accomplishments, selecting objectives, and maintaining equity in the discipline.
What Are Bouldering Grades Anyway?
Climbers rely on these grades to decide if a climb is appropriate for their abilities. That way, they’ll be able to choose the appropriate problems to enjoy themselves or train effectively. Outdoors the two most popular systems are the V-Scale and the Font-Scale.
US bouldering-grade pioneer John Sherman introduced the V-Scale. It goes from V0, the lowest grade, to V17, the hardest grade ever climbed. Today, there are over ten V17 boulders, testament to how the sport continues to test boundaries. The Font-Scale, or French scale, originates from Fontainebleau in France and is widely used in most of Europe.
Outside, the first climber to complete a boulder likely gets to determine the grade. This is why grades sometimes seem subjective or just plain wrong, because what’s “easy” for one climber might be “hard” for another. Everyone pretty much has to take these climbers at their word, but it’s nice to keep in mind that they are self-reported.
In indoor gyms, staff will purposefully set and grade problems to provide a higher level of consistency. Bouldering grades allow climbers to measure their development, plan objectives, and contrast ascents between areas.
Understanding how these grades allow climbers to view the relationship between bouldering and rope climbing is crucial. According to one recently published study, a V12 boulder problem grade is about equal to that of a 5.11a/b route. Climbing grades aren’t always consistent.
How Bouldering Grades Evolved
Bouldering grades weren’t invented in a vacuum. Such is the nature of this incredible and ever-evolving sport. It’s a testament to the stories of everyone who climbs and the majestic places that fuel their passion.
The Font-grade, originating from Fontainebleau in France, is one of the oldest systems. Climbers began adopting it in the 1960s, and Michel Libert’s L’Abbatoir established an early precedent. The Font-scale is an open-ended list. It begins at V1, increases in one-number increments, and employs a “+” for slightly harder problems.
Beyond level 6, it further divides into “A,” “B,” and “C” to indicate even finer increments of difficulty. Currently, the hardest known problem is Burden of Dreams at 9A as of 2023.
As bouldering established itself, other areas developed their own systems. In the late 1960s, John Ewbank transformed the nature of climbing across Australia and New Zealand. He launched an entirely new ranking system, rejecting the old British E-grade.
Back home in the US, it was the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS) that would give rise to the V-scale. It ranges down from V0 and up as the problems increase in difficulty. Each system above attempts to stay in line with the difficulty of new ascents as climbers continue to stretch the limits of what’s achievable.
Incredible lines and powerful climbers have defined these scales. As new moves and gear were developed, what was considered “hard” continued to change. With the increase in the importance of climbing competitions, the stakes were set higher, ensuring that the entire world paid attention when new grades materialized.
Every new problem that a climber sets pushes the grade system a little further out of shape. This difference in scales makes it impossible to compare grades across the world. This diversity serves as a testament to the depth and diversity of the sport.
Key Differences: Font vs. V Scale
The Font scale from Fontainebleau, France, is frequently cited as the origin of the bouldering grade. You’ll often hear reference to the V scale, which is commonly used in the U.S. Both systems aid climbers in choosing appropriately difficult problems, but they do so in fundamentally different ways.
The Font scale has simple grades from 3. It goes all the way to the difficult 9A, using numbers as well as plus/minus symbols. It introduces more subtlety with every increment, so a 6A+ is only slightly more difficult than a 6A.
The V scale starts at VB, which indicates a level for beginners. It then increases in integer steps, starting at V0 and going to V1. This makes it easy to identify leaps in challenge, but it can be less nuanced at times.
Here’s a quick side-by-side look:
| Feature | Font Scale | V Scale |
|---|---|---|
| Origin | France (Fontainebleau) | United States |
| Range | 3 to 9A (with +/– for nuance) | VB to V17+ (whole steps) |
| Grading Detail | Fine gradation, subtle jumps | Broad steps, simple |
| Cultural Use | Europe, many global spots | US, North America |
| Notation | Numbers and letters (e.g., 7B+) | V + number (e.g., V5) |
Yet culture is an unrecognized force that drives these decisions. In France and much of the rest of Europe, climbers continue to use the Font scale, largely due to tradition and national pride.
In the US, the V scale seems more straightforward and has been widely adopted through guidebooks and gyms. For climbers who travel, these distinctions render the interpretation of grades an exercise in re-adjustment.
A V5 in California may not be the same experience as a 6C+ in Fontainebleau, even if they are intended to be equivalent. Understanding these two scales goes a long way in preparing for a trip and establishing appropriate expectations.
Beyond Bouldering: Other Climbing Grades
While bouldering grades such as the V Scale tend to get most of the attention, climbing has a full set of grading systems for all other styles. An example of a sport climbing route graded in the French system is 8c. In contrast, traditional or “trad” climbing in the U.S. Typically takes on the Yosemite Decimal System (YDS), with grades like 5.12 or 5.13.
These grades help climbers size up routes before they start, giving hints about how tough a climb might feel and what skills come into play. The difference is in the length and style. A V8 boulder problem squeezes a single difficult move into only ten feet.
By comparison, a sport route rated 8c (roughly 5.14b YDS) might climb a 60-foot vertical wall, where endurance is just as important as strength. Trad routes introduce another layer of challenge since you need to place your own gear. Thus, the grade incorporates the technical requirements and the mental challenges of the climb.
Knowing how these grades map to each other makes a difference when you climb in new places or switch between styles. For example, someone who boulders V6 might find 5.12 routes within reach on sport walls since the raw power and finger strength transfer well.
Local crags in places like Bishop, California, or the Red River Gorge in Kentucky often have all these grades side by side. One day, you’ll spot climbers trading bouldering pads for climbing harnesses, choosing problems that play to their strengths.
It illustrates the need for grades to allow all climbers to choose the appropriate route regardless of their preferred style or rock type.
Why Understanding Conversion Matters
For climbers, learning how to convert between the 8c and V scale is about more than a simple math equation. Moving from sport climbing to bouldering takes a shift in mindset and approach. The sports climbing system, such as 8c, is not the same as the V scale in bouldering, which takes you through different movements and dangers.
By taking into account both grades, you’ll be able to select routes that reflect your expertise. Whether you’re projecting a route in a California gym or on actual stone in Bishop, this skill is crucial to your success. This allows you to more easily establish objectives and pursue higher objectives with greater confidence in your own abilities.
Having a good understanding of grade conversion will not only allow you to better plan your route, but keep you safe. If you try to send a V11 boulder problem thinking it’s just a rad V4, you might be in for a world of hurt. Test the task before you scale the wall!
Knowing your grade reading helps you to train properly and skip the bite-off-more-than-you-can-chew days. If you’ve sent all 8b+ routes, push yourself to a new level. Seek out V10 boulders to really test your limits and reduce the trial and error.
This type of planning reduces the risk of injury and increases the sense of safety and confidence. As climbers travel around the world, this becomes an even bigger problem since every country uses a different grading scale.
This can lead to confusion when beta sharing or discussing climbs. If you hear that a particular boulder problem is rated V8, while another person says it’s 7B+, you would think they aren’t even talking about the same climb. In reality, they’re not that different at all!
Understanding these two scales creates opportunities. You’ll connect with more climbers, trade more advice, and test yourself on more problems no matter where you travel to.
My Take: Use Grades as Guides
Climbing grades, whether it’s the 8c scale or the V scale, can seem like a straightforward measure of ability. Grades can be of greatest value when considered as a general guide rather than a rigid standard. We all know grades are very inconsistent from gym to gym, wall to wall, and often state to state.
Many people find that a V5 at a gym in LA feels different from a V5 in Joshua Tree. Climbs can be pretty different depending on where you come from! That’s why it’s important to use grades as a guide, not a gauntlet. They are a good indication of where you’re at, but certainly not an indication of who you are as a climber.
In the end, personal growth will be what truly counts—not a simple letter grade on paper. Instead, many climbers fall into the trap of chasing higher numbers, believing this is the only path to improvement or acceptance. The true victory is in the moves they learn.
You’ll be shredding hard on the wall and finding the ultimate joy in your climb! Change is sometimes most visible in the minutiae. Like, maybe you can maintain a challenging crimp for a few seconds longer, or send a project that was out of your reach last month. Give yourself a high five for those moments, as much as you’d high-five yourself if you sent your first V6.
Changing styles mid-grading, especially from something like the French 8c to the American V-scale, is the mark of true grit. Each system has its own unique idiosyncrasies. Moving with the new grades enables you to better digest lines and contend with unfamiliar approaches.
This skill enriches any experience you may have traveling or outdoors, because you won’t be as intimidated by a figure. This is where strong, organized community support makes a big difference when grades turn tricky. Fellow climbers can give you advice, warn you about sandbagged routes or at least biased grading, and give you a sense of where you’re at.
You get to the deeper goals of building trust and friendships—beyond just chasing “likes.
Climbing Grade Conversions
Frequently Asked Questions
What does “8c” mean in bouldering grades?
What does “8c” mean in bouldering grades? It denotes an iconic, world-class, impossibly difficult boulder problem, typically only climbed by the very top echelon of climbers.
What is the V scale equivalent of 8c?
8c on the Font scale is approximately v15 on the V scale. This is one of the hardest bouldering grades, requiring extreme power and skill.
Why do bouldering grades use different systems?
Bouldering grades originally developed in different areas. The V scale is widely used in the US, and the Font scale in Europe. Both of these systems have the same goal — to convey the difficulty of bouldering problems.
How accurate is the conversion from 8c to V scale?
How accurate is the conversion from 8c to V scale? 8c does equal V15 in most cases, with minor exceptions based on idiosyncratic grading and local style.
Does knowing grade conversions help climbers in the US?
Yes. Knowing grade conversions allows American climbers to compare problems around the globe and establish training objectives in both grading systems.
Are there other bouldering grading systems besides Font and V?
There are some, but Font and V are the most widely used. Other systems, such as the British technical grade, are even less common in the US.
Should climbers focus only on grades?
No. Grades are not the end of the journey. Grades are useful guides. Train for improvement, technique, enjoyment over digits.